No reviews on the net for the new KAP Winstorm II recurve limbs after W&W started the KAP line again. So I'm here to do mine
Fun fact: KAP line restarted in the Q3 of 2014. Their new Winstorm I limbs cost 80SGD (excl shipping) carbon/wood setup. I am currently using the old Winstorm 68" 32#, with W&W Winex riser and have been served quite well. Other than the poundage feeling a lot lighter than the CyBow PowerFull 68" 32#. It felt a lot like my friend's SF Axiom+ 28# and SF Elite 28#.
Just for the record, CyBow PowerFull 32# wasn't nice to use as it just kept bouncing around the riser after the arrow flew out.
Back to topic, I just received the Winstorm II, 68" 32#, from www.alternativess.com and am waiting to try them out over the weekend. They cost about 150SGD (excl shipping of about 20USD). Carbon/foam setup. The only 2 reasons I got them were because they were cheap. And Coach mentioned that they're made in the same factory as SF limbs, just branded differently.
**update!**
Finally managed to shoot the new limbs with my old string. I'm quite bad at feeling the difference between limbs, so I'll quote what my friends said.
"It's very smooth to draw!" - compare with SF Axiom+
"Very smooth draw!" - another experienced archer
And after trying the axiom+, I have to admit, it is quite nice to use.
Draw weight throughout the draw feels even and does not suddenly increase, even with 'overdraw'. Each shot feels firm
Considering its price (S$180 incl' shipping), material (carbon/foam), its performance (smooth and firm, I feel that it is a good buy. Just so you know, only using it as an intermediate limb. Hoping to change to 36# end of the year.
Compared To
The SF Elite, I've only used a friend's personal SF Elite on his HOYT GMX, and I can say it felt kinda similar. In terms of the smooth draw and firm release. Not too sure about what is inside each limb though, KAP just calls it foam, while SF calls it Hight Foam?
The Elite costs S$270 from local retailers in Singapore.
-Add Aug, 2015-
Reflecting on the the feel of both the limbs (SF-E and KAP WS2), I have a slight inclination to say that the SF-E feels more firm. Maybe it's my tuning, or maybe I'm wrong.
-End of addition-
After two months of use
Tuning: After installing the limbs, following my Coach's recommendations (brace height 22.6cm, tiller height difference 0.6cm) for 68" bow, each release had a huge "bang" and it just doesn't sound good.
A friend told me that W&W recommended tiller height difference was 0.3cm. Since KAP and SF are by W&W, he told me why not try it out? I did. It was sooooo silent with a good 'woosh' now instead.
Creeking: Now this is what worries me most. When I first put the limbs on, and drew it a few times, there were creeking sounds where the limbs met the riser. Well, Coach said it's fine, so I continued using it. Guess it was like a 'run-in period' for the limbs. After shooting for 4 hours, the creek was gone.
Now, Coach advised me to turn in the tiller boards. New they're quite deep in, about 3 rounds before it touches bottom. And the limbs start creeking again :/
And it seems like its creeking from middle of the limb, not the attachment. Ohdear. Time to go to Coach again.
For the record, before turning in, the poundage gauge measured 32# draw weight. After turning the knobs in, it measured 36.4#.
-25Nov, 2015-
No more creeking in the limbs, but the bottom limb is rattling in the limb pocket
Limbs appearance:
1, little dots start appearing on the top of the limb where the limb is attached to the riser. I feel it's just cosmetics.
2. There are 2 bulges at the middle of the bottom limb facing me. I hope it's not the limbs delaminating. Will research to see what it is.
The cosmetic defects are due to the humidity in Singapore and is a common sight. So it's not because of the limbs, but because of the weather. Keep the equipment dry and store it dry!
Pictures when I'm free.
Third month of use
Well over run-in period. The limbs have been giving me consistent shots (sufficiently consistent for an amateur like me).
No more creeking. Very satisfied with the purchase.
Sixth month of use
For some reason, I cant see any of the cosmetic defects anymore. Will try to find it harder next time.
Shot thousands of arrows already, probably more than 2k. Limbs are holding up well. Sounds and feels good too.
Here is my bow setup, haven't taken individual shots of the items.
-Add 16Sep, 2015-
(Refer to the later post about the limbs. It is NOT twisted!!)
Seventh / eighth month of use - refer to the new winstorm II post for a clarification. It's not the limbs' fault
If you're considering getting this pair of limbs, I'd say HOLD IT!
It does seem like my top limb is getting warped (twist). Optimistic as always, I'll think its just bad tuning and alignment. But I have to confirm it and accept if it has really twisted.
2 likely reasons
i) I did not tune and align properly from the start, hence it twisted
ii) It is unable to handle it's own weight. As mentioned above, it is being pulled 36# (measured with the scale) on a limb rated 32#.
If you do want to buy winstorm II, go for a lower poundage (26#?) if you want it to last. If you want to go higher, go for quality-assured limbs like W&W
-end of add-
-Add 17Sep, 2015-
It is official, the top limb has twisted.. Anyone can suggest a good, cheap limb rated 34-36#?
-Add 25Nov, 2015-
So, sent it back to the distributer to check and they said its not warped. When I got it back and started shooting again, it looked fine. Will update when I see more of it
-end of add-
Kindly refer to the second post about this limb
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| Always believed in maintaining my equipment and keeping them clean |
Technical details
Riser: W&W Winex (old model)
Limbs: KAP Winstorm II
Stabiliser: Fivics CEX7
Sight: Shibuya RC Ultima red w fibre optic (just changed, picture not updated)
String: Avalon BCY-X 20 strand
Tiller height difference: 0.3mm
I'm looking forward to a Uukha x0 or x1 next. Let me know how it is please, someone!
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Let me know if this helped!
Feel free to contact me at buzytmj@gmail.com!
This helped. Son#2 (24" draw, 149cm tall) is using a 23" riser with 66/18 KAP Winstorm II risers for some time now. He's finding it slightly harder to draw a 68/16 Axiom+ limbs as the draw is less smooth. Over here in New Zealand an infrequent coach is commenting that those limbs are a good starting purchase for beginners even to intermediate.
ReplyDeleteNo creaking so far. I'll check back after going through winter. Depending on how tall he grows, I may replace it with a KAP WS2 68/20
Personally Son#1 and myself are finding it a little harder to draw on carbon/wood vs carbon/foam. A lot of talk about this online. Case in point: our SF Elite Carbon Foam 68/24 tuned down 6.7% is easier to draw and hold compared to our SF Elite Carbon/Wood 68/20. I don't yet have a gauge (on the way) but I'm finding published pull weight to contain some margin of error (too many factors)
Apply this to the KAP WS2 against other similar-priced carbon/wood and weep :( Over here we don't have archery shops to try so the only way to do so is finding out the hard way ordering from alternatives.
Hey there Rostov! Thanks for taking time to read the post!
DeleteTo a certain extent, some of the creeking could come from my worn out riser. So you may not face the same issue.
Unfortunately here in Singapore, the options are limited as well. Glad to have taken a leap of faith in ordering this from alternatives!
Also, great to hear that your family is enjoying shooting!
My son2's axiom+ 68/16 lower limb is creaking, Just after 8 uses (average 8 ends), 3 months old. It's not coming from the limb bolt section but somewhere 1/3 from the limb pocket to the end. Despite online and club raves about how it performs versus costs, I'm still disappointed with this.
DeleteDoes Malaysia have more options for archery shops? I'm just asking as I occasionally see a Malaysian archer in a few world cup quarter/semi finals so thought they might have more support for that sport.
On other news I'm seriously considering the Uukha ex1's. We have a very young club member (Jeremy Hollis) who's recently gotten to Shanghai 2015 (went to 1/16) who's sponsored by Uukha (Upro + x100) and I really like the monolith limbs to go with my FB 6.3. It appears that most of the excess energy goes to the slightly heavier weights compared to the W&W's and yet does not go faster (actually, 3-6% slower) but the W&W limbs are pricing me out for now. Let's compare notes then.
Hi, I found this post as I was looking for comments on the KAP Winstorm II limbs I've recently got. There's not much comment out there. I too experienced the creaking sound on my new SF Forged + riser and Winstorm II combo. Since lubricating the limb pockets with some silicone spray, the creaking has gone away. Still getting a bit too much noise and vibration on release for my liking (it seems worse with a BCY 8190 string compared to the fat 18 strand Fast Flight+ string that originally came with the bow, which unfortunately doesn't fit my nocks well). Thank you for the tips on the tiller, currently running 7mm, I'll try reducing it to 3mm see if it reduces the noise.
ReplyDeleteCheers from the UK
Hi Jon, thanks for your feedback (and much apologies for the delayed reply). Some thoughts from me on the noise and vibration. BCY 8190 might have too little stretch to be used on these limbs. Stretch can be defined as a reversible elongation (like a rubber band).
DeleteWhat happens is upon release, strings will stretch a little due to the snapping force. Comparing a string with more stretch vs less stretch, those with less stretch will produce a louder sound. Hence i prefer to use the traditional Angel Majesty string.
You can also consider adjusting the brace height to one which has softest sound upon release
Hi Chris, thanks for your reply. A month or so on and after adjusting the +ve tiller down to about 3mm, it is notably better, so thanks for the suggestion. Yes I think the string is probably not helping on the noise front although I like the way it shoots. With stabilisers fitted with dampers, it really quiets down.
ReplyDeleteIMO, much is made of different string materials but at the end of the day most of them (FastFlight+, 8125, 8190, Majesty etc.) are based on HMPE which inherently has low elasticity compared to say Dacron (polyester) or traditional materials. This is partly where the extra speed comes from. I'd guess another big factor is the overall mass of the string, and as my 18 strand 8190 string is thin compared to the 18 strand FF+, it's almost certainly lower mass and therefore "faster", but also harsher and less forgiving.
Hi guys. Thanks for this discussion. I just finished my 4hrs "tuning session" with only 1 goal - to lower the noise of my KAP. I tried different brace height (from 21,5cm to 23,5cm) with different tiller (from 0 to 1cm) and yes - probably best result is with tiler around 0,3 and and brace height between 22,2-23,0cm.
ReplyDeleteBut there is still this vibration noise instead of typical bow smooth sound. I'm using FastFlight string as well, so it's probably "feature" of these limbs with FF string combination. There is even video with the exactly the same sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4xVZfzBhRk
So I order some limb dampeners and will try to solve it this way (-: Because otherwise - I really love these limbs.
I have but another problem and I'm unable to find anything on the web. I try to setup center shot with arrow pushed slightly outside of the center position (like for example here: http://www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/tuning-your-recurve-bow-part-2/). But when I screw my plunger button to the max (if I try to screw it more, it starts to push out my arrow rest) my arrow is exactly behind string - so perfect center. I verified my limb position multiple times and I think that they are centered perfectly - my string is going exactly in the center of limbs. Do you know this problem? What should I do?
thanks.
Hi Michal,
DeleteI'm not sure if the sound might get better after two weeks of shooting. Unfortunately, sound is definitely not a good sign as it may be a sign of unnecessary stress on the limbs.
May want to burnish your string and ensure there's some twists in there (but not too much).
Sorry not able to help much on this.
As for the plunger, I would say it is the most likely limg alignment, like you suspect.
Not sure if you're doing this, but I also use the long rod as a reference point to check alignment. Align the string in the middle of long rod, before checking against the top and bottom tiller bolt screw on the riser. Once these 3 points are verified, also check that the string is in the centre of the grip. (Always beginning with aligning the string to the centre of the long rod)
As for the arrow, the following statement would be confusing but here it goes.
After aligning the string to the middle of the long rod, check that the front right side of the arrow shaft, is 'touching' the left of the string.
Hope these are good enough to eliminate the sound from your bow when shooting
Chris
Have not watched this video, not sure if it's worth watching.
Delete2 hours long, Jake Kaminski tuning his bow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14mABSsBoVo